OCC Forums » Systems and Maintenance » Anchors and Anchoring » Anchors and anchoring

Anchors and anchoring

DariaBlackwell — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:28:10 GMT

As keeping your boat securely connected to the bottom is really important for the safety and well being of all distance cruisers, an ongoing discussion of issues about gear and technique can be very helpful. Ground tackle has been dramatically improving over the past few years, and as a result techniques for deploying that tackle have been modified. This is a great place for members to share their experience with newer anchors and related gear, tricky anchorages, and tips for effective technique. And if you have a great story to tell, please share it. We all know that anchoring is a spectator sport, and we all love a good story.

RE: Anchors and anchoring

David.Frost — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:28:10 GMT

Just so you know which swivel to avoid.

RE: Anchors and anchoring

David.Frost — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 14:38:23 GMT

Thankyou for your advice and I hope many more sailors out there will read this Best regards

RE: Anchors and anchoring

bwallace — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 14:01:04 GMT

Here is the reply I have received from Vyv Cox. David’s Photos helped with the diagnosis of the failure.

Reply:
Hi Brian,

Here is my response. Thanks for the opportunity to contribute. Please pass it on to your forum.

Best regards

Vyv

Failed bolt-type swivel ex SV Taipan

I suggest you refer to the page of my website that deals with connectors, http://coxeng.co.uk/anchoring/connectors/ but also other pages, particularly under Metallurgy.

The type of swivel used by Taipan is probably the worst that can be selected. I believe that most of this type are manufactured in Spain for the fishing industry and realistically should never be used for yacht anchoring. Not only does its axial strength depend upon a nut and bolt in tension, mechanically a very poor situation, but also it has very limited articulation in certain attitudes. I suspect that this has been a contributory factor in the failure. It can truly be said that in this case the swivel was the weakest link but others, particularly Kong, can be 1.5 times stronger than the chain.

Bolts almost always fail at the first turn inside the nut, as this is the point of maximum stress. In particular, fatigue failures in bolting are absolutely characterised by this failure mode, examples on the website. The Taipan failure has clearly suffered additional corrosion damage, which might suggest the failure mechanism to be corrosion fatigue. However, I suspect the actual cause to be stress-corrosion cracking (SCC), covered in detail on my website. The rough surface of the fracture face is typical of branched cracking rather than the single crack of fatigue. The temperature requirement for SCC is around 60 degrees C, easily achieved by deck fittings in warm sunny climates. Stress is clearly going to be high and concentrated at thread roots, with the additional effect of bending due to the poor articulation.

Stainless steel is a poor choice for moorings, where a shackle or other component may be immersed permanently in mud. However there are many cases, e.g. propeller shafts, folding and feathering propeller pins, where stainless steel under water is reliable and lasts for many years. My Kong swivel and Wichard shackle, both stainless steel, have been in anchoring service since 2005, anchoring for half of every year in the Mediterranean. Regular inspection is advised.

Some anchoring arrangements work well without swivels, in which case there is absolutely no need to fit one. We find a swivel brings handling benefits and after a trial season without one we made the decision to revert to using it. My website shows the method I developed and found most useful, with three links of chain between the swivel and the anchor. This has been widely adopted and is recommended by many anchoring experts.

Vyv Cox. engineer33@btinternet.com

RE: Anchors and anchoring

bwallace — Sun, 21 Jul 2019 18:37:37 GMT

Hi David,
Vyv has responded and asked for the photos, can you send to my e mail one.23@virgin.net

I am hoping he may be able to offer technical expertise which may be useful to other members on the forum.

I see you are from Australia. We had18 months on the East Coast and a fair bit of land travelling also. We loved the place.

Our time Panama was enjoyable as well.

Cheers

Brian the Pom!

RE: Anchors and anchoring

David.Frost — Sun, 21 Jul 2019 13:27:45 GMT

+x[quote]

[b]bwallace - 7/21/2019[/b]
Hi David,
Thanks for the report, And glad all turned out safely for all concerned, and hope Rodolfo eventually is recovered.

My request is can I forward your report to Vyv Cox, a specialists Metalurgy scientist, who writes for Yachting Monthly and is a friend of mine.

I await your reply

Brian and Sue
S/V Darramy in the Peloponnisos
[/quote]

Hi Brian and Sue. That would be fine and I also have photos of the offending swivel.... well what's left of it.

RE: Anchors and anchoring

bwallace — Sun, 21 Jul 2019 06:53:21 GMT

Hi David,
Thanks for the report, And glad all turned out safely for all concerned, and hope Rodolfo eventually is recovered.

My request is can I forward your report to Vyv Cox, a specialists Metalurgy scientist, who writes for Yachting Monthly and is a friend of mine.

I await your reply

Brian and Sue
S/V Darramy in the Peloponnisos

RE: Anchors and anchoring

Dick — Sat, 20 Jul 2019 20:59:14 GMT

+x[quote]

[b]David.Frost - 7/20/2019[/b]
We aboard Taipan have just been through a mini anchor drama. Having lived aboard and anchored around the world in over 1000 different anchorages during the past 18 years we were in total shock when our trusty Rodolfo "Other Type" disappeared off the bow as we retrieved it. The cause of this disaster was a 2-year-old S/S Swivel. The 15mm pin connecting the two rings sheared. Oxygen deprivation corrosion. David had the gear on the ground a month before when we hauled out, inspected it closely and rewired all the shackles after inspection. It was not detectable. We were lucky as this failure could have been very dramatic in the middle of the night in a big blow. Lesson. No more swivel. We had to replace the anchor, at considerable expense here in Panama. We purchased a Rocna 40. This required only a minor bow roller modification.
We hope to go back to the site off Panama and dive for Rodolfo. That anchor was 55kg. We are 50ft and now we are so overloaded with stuff after 18 years I hate to think what we weigh... but it's over 20 ton. Our chain is 10mm short link galvanised and is now 6 years old. Rodolfo was built (and signed) in Fremantle Australia, by an old fisherman and we purchased it second hand for $60. It doesn't owe us anything, It has never dragged but we did have to upgrade our windlass!!!
No more swivels on Taipan.
[/quote]

Hi David,
It is good to hear field reports such as yours; to often we remain silent about things that do not go well. I have long contended that swivels are not necessary on cruising boats (and are often the weak link) and that stainless steel has no place at all in a ground tackle system.
I am sorry this happened to you but appreciate the report and are glad the discovery was not more painful than a lost anchor.
I very much support your conclusion.
My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

RE: Anchors and anchoring

David.Frost — Sat, 20 Jul 2019 19:50:22 GMT

We aboard Taipan have just been through a mini anchor drama. Having lived aboard and anchored around the world in over 1000 different anchorages during the past 18 years we were in total shock when our trusty Rodolfo "Other Type" disappeared off the bow as we retrieved it. The cause of this disaster was a 2-year-old S/S Swivel. The 15mm pin connecting the two rings sheared. Oxygen deprivation corrosion. David had the gear on the ground a month before when we hauled out, inspected it closely and rewired all the shackles after inspection. It was not detectable. We were lucky as this failure could have been very dramatic in the middle of the night in a big blow. Lesson. No more swivel. We had to replace the anchor, at considerable expense here in Panama. We purchased a Rocna 40. This required only a minor bow roller modification.
We hope to go back to the site off Panama and dive for Rodolfo. That anchor was 55kg. We are 50ft and now we are so overloaded with stuff after 18 years I hate to think what we weigh... but it's over 20 ton. Our chain is 10mm short link galvanised and is now 6 years old. Rodolfo was built (and signed) in Fremantle Australia, by an old fisherman and we purchased it second hand for $60. It doesn't owe us anything, It has never dragged but we did have to upgrade our windlass!!!
No more swivels on Taipan.

RE: Anchors and anchoring

Dick — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 10:09:41 GMT

+x[quote]

[b]bwallace - 7/10/2019[/b]
Hi all, not sure where this post should be but I am sure it will eventually end up in the correct (bin)?In last month e bulletin, there was an article entitled “why no one cares about yours travels”. I agree with what has been written, as we find the same.My thought is can someone do a study or has a study been done to understand why when anchored in quiet anchorage, another boat comes in and 90% of the time wants to anchor near you? we can be in a large bay with plenty of room for safe anchoring and peace and quiet. But no we seem to be a magnet. I know we are not alone in this quandary, so maybe someone has looked into the minds of these types of sailorsWe are reasonably sociable folks, but can never stop wondering what are these people thinking about. Amazingly we came across one boat that it turned out were fairly well healed, lived in a large private’s residence, so you would think they would enjoy some space, No, they did not seem to take the hint to move further away.I know we all have examples, and there are some deterrents you may use which again may make interesting reading!Sail SafeBrian and SueS/V Darramy anchored in a quite bay in the Peloponnisos 😎
[/quote]

Hi Brian & Sue, Never underestimate the herding instinct. Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

RE: Anchors and anchoring

bwallace — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 12:49:19 GMT

Hi all, not sure where this post should be but I am sure it will eventually end up in the correct (bin)? In last month e bulletin, there was an article entitled “why no one cares about yours travels”. I agree with what has been written, as we find the same. My thought is can someone do a study or has a study been done to understand why when anchored in quiet anchorage, another boat comes in and 90% of the time wants to anchor near you? we can be in a large bay with plenty of room for safe anchoring and peace and quiet. But no we seem to be a magnet. I know we are not alone in this quandary, so maybe someone has looked into the minds of these types of sailors We are reasonably sociable folks, but can never stop wondering what are these people thinking about. Amazingly we came across one boat that it turned out were fairly well healed, lived in a large private’s residence, so you would think they would enjoy some space, No, they did not seem to take the hint to move further away. I know we all have examples, and there are some deterrents you may use which again may make interesting reading! Sail Safe Brian and Sue S/V Darramy anchored in a quite bay in the Peloponnisos 😎

Anchors and anchoring

simoncurrin — Tue, 31 Jul 2018 18:07:08 GMT

It's always entertaining when someone poses an anchoring question. I just lifted this thread from the OCC Forum. All very topical as earlier this month we were rafted up with Peter Smith in Nuuk who invented both the Rocna and the Vulcan. Hello We are in the market for a new main bow anchor and would like to ask the OCC comunity if anyone has any experience in the Vulcan anchor (made by Rocna). Pros and Cons? We currently have a 20 kg Delta which we are very pleased with but it has been a bit beaten up. [font=inherit] Whoa!! The start of an anchoring thread!!! Lookout for LOTs of opinions![/font] Personally like both the Spade and the Rocna - but don't know the Vul[font=inherit] [font=inherit][font=inherit]We have been using the Vulcan for 2 years now, picked it because no roll bar interface issue with our bow sprit. Deploys real nice and sets very quickly. Have had no holding issues with it in two years of use, including switching currents. If you an[/font][/font][/font] [url=https://www.facebook.com/bj.vanderveer?fref=gc&dti=378596952153031] [font=inherit]Further, we find setting and holding performance same as the Rocna.[/font][/url] [font=inherit][font=inherit][font=inherit]Just deployed my rocna for first time. Set instantly. Brilliant. My old 20kg Bruce would drag all over the bay before sort of setting. [/font] [font=inherit]The rocna chart said I needed the 33kg version but this is massive and over sized. I got the 25kg instead and it’s a beast. Best insurance money I’ve spent. In my humble opinion [/font][/font][/font] [font=inherit][font=inherit]Had you considered getting another Delta but bugger?Our 40kg is very good[/font][/font] [font=inherit]Yes I have. Our 20 kg Delta on 37 feet boat has never let us down when set. But it struggles to set or not at all in very soft mud. There I figured the Vulcan would be better?[/font] [font=inherit]Or a bigger Delta[/font] [url=https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.paull.33?fref=gc&dti=378596952153031][font=inherit]Rocna 33 has never let us down even in quite challenging conditions. Only issue is the amount of mud it brings up![/font][/url] [font=inherit]My concern about the concave anchors is just that and that they have reported problems on resetting after a wind shift due to the collection of material on the surface. See reports on Morganscloude.[/font] [font=inherit]I understand that the Vulcan is the same as the Rocna apart from the the omission of the roll bar. Apparently the roll bar was omitted to it easier to stow on motor boats.[/font] [font=inherit] [font=inherit]I have a Rocna 20 kg on a Tradewind 35 and it just works, only trouble I've had is among heavy weed growth in NW Spain.[/font] [font=inherit][url=https://www.facebook.com/groups/378596952153031/?ref=bookmarks#]Manage[/url][/font] [font=inherit][/font] [/font][url=https://www.facebook.com/wim.vanblaricum?fref=gc&dti=378596952153031][font=inherit][font=inherit][font=inherit][font=inherit][font=inherit]I vote for the Knox-anchor. We have the 27 kg and never have had any problems with setting.[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/url][url=https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.knoxanchors.com%2F&h=AT1zxabBAqpPNlhgphAHi86ZE26FntIfHqKhKAiakxqnDLoAZnV8pvGJcqv4qVyL4QFclOkVuHQusYUgFlhr4Sesjw4eNTewCM-UxoLnJky0grY8-WG58fuS9gKWb6B6X6WXMl0]http://www.knoxanchors.co[/url] [url=https://www.facebook.com/lars.hellman.73?fref=gc&dti=378596952153031] [font=inherit]Well the split fluke is a no no for me. That's a chain catcher in wind shifts. Like a Danforth. I've seen it happen and it's a nightmare.[/font][/url] [url=https://www.facebook.com/wim.vanblaricum?fref=gc&dti=378596952153031][font=inherit]I don't like Danforths either but this is a very different design.[/font][/url] [url=https://www.facebook.com/groups/378596952153031/?ref=bookmarks#][font=inherit]Good experience with using a Rocna Vulcan in the Chesapeake Bay's sand and soft mud. One size less than recommended, but sets well and holds fast--including through shifts of direction.[/font][/url] [font=inherit]Good info. The Chesapeake is mostly soft muddy bottom I understand and that's where our Delta is not doing well.[/font] [font=inherit][font=inherit]How big is your boat? What area do you cruise? If you are usually in rock, or kelp, or sand, etc, different anchors would be better.[/font] [/font][font=inherit][font=inherit]We cruise worldwide. Our boat is 37 feet.[/font] [url=https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syseawind.blogspot.se%2F&h=AT1HDmXclTtMY_7Wd9wkG9JNlrUB9og3lQ0C28uIZdS5al0rsc-qTa3PdCnCqz0paduy3IMwrMV77ixxY-8cAO1qr_gj71iXeXFxEfKCR3Ct2Weqong4UFxdT55uleZ74qQPHts]www.syseawind.blogspot.se[/url] [url=https://www.facebook.com/syseawind?hc_location=ufi]www.facebook.com/syseawind[/url][/font][font=inherit][url=https://www.facebook.com/groups/378596952153031/?ref=bookmarks#]Manage[/url][/font] [font=inherit][font=inherit][font=inherit][font=inherit][font=inherit][url=https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syseawind.blogspot.se%2F&h=AT1ekxGjbeSweK-LGfISkHkOEUns2lQCrp6wBCRXRoyE6BFX7TKwZgm3ZhQcqTIBIRZgmcyfKV1zqE6aXydJpts5ll64tooE9bjsUZvUsn4qWYFWUc8dzl876bvf49pCVC2TG-Cg8w] [img]https://external-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQDWhLP1MHRkOe0a&w=100&h=100&url=https%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F_pXMm4Uzr93U%2FSPQ8wKycamI%2FAAAAAAAAA-I%2F74IDNVj8SEI%2Fs320%2FFantasi%2B37%2Brendering.jpg&cfs=1&upscale=1&fallback=news_d_placeholder_publisher&_nc_hash=AQDuZWxkwyFh2mFD[/img] [/url][/font][font=inherit][font=inherit]SYSEAWIND.BLOGSPOT.COM[/font] [font=inherit] [font=inherit][url=https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.syseawind.blogspot.se%2F&h=AT2MTQEUTesx1MOqbL85UnOl3lZvDJfKOVmSO7bjYkE7IRmQH0TpMFr1l58RLH2mDSsNe7pUM_FFLRhcPo8MJ2OnFfPFj7QgHTcreBh2jb_R41RXV2Y0wlm9FlYbQ7Z5sKoDefMbGA]s/y SEA WIND[/url][/font] [/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font] [font=inherit]I tend to prefer proven anchors. The Manson and Rocna seem to be popular. I still have my Genuine CQR, but, I will be getting a Manson or Rocna, I think. I was disappointed in the galvanize quality on a Manson here in the marina. I need to aske them about that.[/font] [url=https://www.facebook.com/groups/378596952153031/?ref=bookmarks#][font=inherit]Why change? I have delta also .Have sailed anchored more than most worldwide[/font] [/url] [font=inherit]Good question. I'm not so sure I will.[/font] [font=inherit][font=inherit]We love our Rocna 51. Drop it and forget it (almost). Manson supreme are also good. (Get one a size larger than the website recommends. Bigger is better.)[/font] [font=inherit][/font] [/font][font=inherit][font=inherit]Been let down twice by the Delta so changed to Manson Supreme - brilliant. Had to modify bowsprit to accommodate the roll bar but all good. Thank you for starting an anchor thread - ages since I've been on one .....[/font] [/font][font=inherit] [font=inherit]The Rocna 33 sits comfortably on the bow of our Island Packet[/font] [/font][font=inherit] [font=inherit]For your boat maybe better a Rocna 33 ? ! Regards[/font] [/font] [font=inherit]I don't like the roll bar and reported problems with resetting in sudden wind shifts.[/font] [font=inherit]True[/font] [font=inherit][font=inherit]Interesting thread. We have had great service from our Delta and have chosen this again on new boat. We also vote for using a chum weight.[/font] [/font][font=inherit][font=inherit]Suggest reading Eric Hiscock ' Come aboard '. Very good description of anchors and setting of them which is still contemporary.[/font] [url=https://www.facebook.com/ufi/reaction/profile/browser/?ft_ent_identifier=2098063400206369_2099117223434320&av=584070913] [/url][/font][font=inherit][font=inherit][font=inherit]The best book I have read on anchoring is this one. Written by a man who designed anchoring systems for science buoys. Ask your local library if they can get it for you through Interlibrary Loan.[/font] [url=https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2340300.Oceanography_and_Seamanship]https://www.goodreads.com/.../2340300.Oceanography_and...[/url][/font][font=inherit][url=https://www.facebook.com/groups/378596952153031/?ref=bookmarks#]Manage[/url][/font] [font=inherit][font=inherit][font=inherit][font=inherit][font=inherit][url=https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.goodreads.com%2Fbook%2Fshow%2F2340300.Oceanography_and_Seamanship&h=AT281p0qeQ3faoM9UXGq0dBhEVJ-GR-DNMWaj-r2pzssSmT2Awt8eQbfjzKzmoxYQVEX_niCwjqaTGR59BClYPjYRj5hN00rPXcgdVxU1kbkdNZjwA1FDIY1-qQLcrRM4r02jZan-Q] [img]https://external-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/safe_image.php?d=AQAluOwHe9yIBqOA&w=100&h=100&url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.gr-assets.com%2Fimages%2FS%2Fcompressed.photo.goodreads.com%2Fbooks%2F1407107693i%2F2340300._UY630_SR1200%2C630_.jpg&cfs=1&upscale=1&fallback=news_d_placeholder_publisher&_nc_hash=AQBfICB8xhT589Gn[/img] [/url][/font][font=inherit][font=inherit] GOODREADS.COM [/font][font=inherit][font=inherit][url=https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.goodreads.com%2Fbook%2Fshow%2F2340300.Oceanography_and_Seamanship&h=AT1fkulStWRvmlqJJ6wQFN_HBOvr7UDw9j9xVyxFimmaS7AiYEI97-U_izycIqiwZ8lMULeAI3srjeeC23A6ITy9GWgSzcKDFWPznQgyYjCFjCvi18TDmPmqh5pkR7HgEzwIx74oBpdM29IDIZau6G4]Oceanography and Seamanship[/url][/font] [/font] [/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font] [font=inherit][font=inherit]It is a great book. His theory on optimal rides has proven well in practice. We sat through a cat 4 hurricane and a cat 2 one using his theory[/font] [font=inherit]I bought the book in the 70’s. Unless it has been updated Roxana etc are absent[/font][/font] [url=https://www.facebook.com/groups/378596952153031/?ref=bookmarks#] [/url][font=inherit] [font=inherit]FYI There are some good anchoring discussions on the OCC Forum - and unlike Facebook, they're archivable for future reference...[/font] [/font][font=inherit] [font=inherit]Just changed from a 30 kg Bruce to a 33 kg Vulcan. Holding is great in both, but Vulcan sets more easily, and penetrates harder bottoms.[/font] [/font][font=inherit] [font=inherit]The Vulcan is made by Rocna. Its shank shape was developed to more easily fit on power boats. We have tested it alongside the Rocna and Ultra and found its performance to be equivalent to those newer generation anchors. We still like the Ultra best, but its expense is a factor.[/font] [/font][font=inherit] [/font] [font=inherit]Actually shank shape was designed to contribute to roll into optimal setting position, that coupled with weighted shoe result in proper orientation without a roll bar. The upside is that the shank shape means it self deploys easier.[/font] [font=inherit][font=inherit] [/font][/font] [font=inherit][font=inherit]Just a general comment regarding this anchor thing. How quick it sets, one or two anchor lengths, doesn't matter as long as it sets properly. Holding power is important and should match your boat size. A good size CQR holds well enough while set. In my[/font][/font][font=inherit][font=inherit][font=inherit] opinion the most important criteria is how well it handels a sudden 180 wind shift. That's what gives you peace of mind. Knowing your anchors weaknesses is important. The only Delta weaknesses in my experience is in soft mud.[/font][/font][/font] [font=inherit] [/font] [font=inherit]Delta is a plow. All plow anchors have have the same weakness that in surge conditions they will actually plow through the bottom. Conversly 3rd gen concave anchors will attempt to dig in deeper.[/font] [font=inherit][font=inherit] [/font][/font] [font=inherit][font=inherit]Well it's a common missconception that a plow anchor is the same as a farmers plow. Which only has one side to turn the ground upside down. A Delta or a CQR is more like chisel that digs down the harder you pull. Sometimes my Delta is so deep down I have to run over it to get it back on board.[/font][/font] [font=inherit] [/font] [font=inherit]Well in Marsh and Blackpoint have seen furrows after a blow from CQR and Deltas. So my comment based on my eyeball.[/font] [url=https://www.facebook.com/ufi/reaction/profile/browser/?ft_ent_identifier=2098063400206369_2099514973394545&av=584070913] [/url][font=inherit] [/font] [font=inherit]What is Marsh and Blackpoint? Sorry for my lack of English vocabulary.[/font] [font=inherit][font=inherit][font=inherit][font=inherit][font=inherit][font=inherit] [/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font] [font=inherit][font=inherit][font=inherit][font=inherit][font=inherit][font=inherit] our experiance with our CQR was not great. Various places in Chesapeake, ICW and Bahamas we had periodic issues with setting, and dragging. We never had a good sleep. Once we traded for a Rocna saw a noticable difference in both settin[/font][/font]…[url=https://www.facebook.com/groups/378596952153031/?ref=bookmarks#]See more[/url][/font][/font][/font][/font] [url=https://www.facebook.com/ufi/reaction/profile/browser/?ft_ent_identifier=2098063400206369_2099523800060329&av=584070913] [/url][font=inherit] [/font] [font=inherit]Both are popular anchorages in the Bahamas.[/font] [font=inherit] [/font] [font=inherit][url=https://www.facebook.com/ufi/reaction/profile/browser/?ft_ent_identifier=2098063400206369_2099525300060179&av=584070913]How quickly the anchor sets is very important if you are in a crowded anchorage ... and frequently one is in a crowded anchorage.[/url][/font] [i]edited by simoncurrin on 8/3/2018[/i]

Anchors and anchoring

Dick — Tue, 17 Jul 2018 10:14:00 GMT

Hi David, Thanks for the field report and I concur with your conclusions. While reading your report, I remembered another reason (I do not think this came up before) to shy away from chums (sentinels/kellets) as a regular thing and that is the occasional midnight fire drill where I want to get the anchor up and secure with speed and simplicity. Now, this did not happen so often in Northern Europe, but I do remember them (with no fondness) in the tropics where squalls were more common and un-predictable and being able to be up and underway with a minimum of fuss was important. My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy, Baddeck, Nova Scotia

Anchors and anchoring

David.Tyler — Tue, 17 Jul 2018 08:28:12 GMT

I've now been using the cast iron kettlebell as a chum for three months full-time cruising in my 23ft [i]Weaverbird[/i], anchoring mostly, with time alongside pontoons at a minimum, and with the chum deployed nearly every time that I anchor. [ul][li]Yes, it's getting a little rusty around the handle, but not at all bad, and a coat of rust treatment in the winter will fix it.[/li][li]Weight in air = 8kg, weight in seawater = 7kg, by digital balance. The weight of a lead equivalent in seawater would be ~ 7.5kg, so hardly worth worrying about.[/li][li]It helps in two ways, with a short chain + nylon rode: keeping the rode from fouling the keels and rudder, as hoped, and slowing the tendency to sail around at anchor, but not eliminating it.[/li][li]When the wind blows, it does very little to improve the angle of rode to seabed, even though it's a similar weight to my anchor (9kg Vulcan). The average OCC ocean cruising boat, deploying a 20kg Vulcan, say, is also going to need a 20kg chum to do any good, and that will be quite a tussle to lift over the stemhead. I think I agree with the anchor gurus, the better place to add the extra weight is in the anchor itself, when using an all-chain rode, and the chum is only really of use to keep a nylon rode clear of the keel(s) and rudder.[/li][/ul]

Anchors and anchoring

Dick — Mon, 19 Feb 2018 17:19:45 GMT

Hi David, As I said in the previous post, I was writing for other readers. You have made your decision and that is fine. I in no way wished to keep poking at you and am very sorry that it was taken in that manner. Were we to have been having a private dialogue, I would not have pursued any further communication on the subject, but we were having a public discussion. I consider the Forum as a place to communicate and pursue “best practices” and learn from others in the process. Sometimes that entails an awkward back and forth. I admire your creativity to see the possibilities in a piece of equipment from another recreation which will likely serve a new function in our sport as a kellet and save considerable money as well. I wrote initially to answer your question as to a problem you were having and support your use of a kellet as a solution. I chose to share some of what I had learned over the years in using kellets in hopes it might accelerate your (and others) learning curve. I also chose to flag some of what I saw as limitations of an iron ball over lead. I believe a lead kellet to be “best practices” (and suggested a way of obtaining lead at reasonably price) but absolutely understand that one can choose alternatives that work for them. My only other consideration when writing for the Forum is whether there are any safety issues in deviating from best practices and there are certainly none embedded in our discussion. I wish you very good luck. My best, Dick

Anchors and anchoring

David.Tyler — Mon, 19 Feb 2018 12:50:14 GMT

Hi Dick, With equal respect, I have to disagree with your comments. Has the galvanising never been abraded from your steel anchor and chain? The answer must be yes, if you've used them at all. Show me a boat with a rust-free anchor, and I'll show you a boat that doesn't get anchored very much. And what have you done about it? The answer must be to have done some maintenance. So what's new? We all know that boats need maintenance. My cast iron keels will need painting in the future, but at the moment they're not so bad that I can't live with them. In the case of this kettlebell, I think that it may be powder coating rather than soft paint, as it seems quite thick. If it were to wear off in places, I should think nothing of applying a dab of Hammerite, or other rust remover or treatment. Really, I don't think that you're in a position to comment on this particular device without having held it in your hand, and I can't understand why you've made an issue of this. Certainly, when my sailing season begins in April or May, I'll report back.

Anchors and anchoring

Dick — Sun, 18 Feb 2018 14:59:47 GMT

Hi David, I very much hope that your kellet will work out for you as hoped for. As I write with the idea that others may read our words, I will say that I, respectfully, disagree that a painted iron ball used in an anchoring system will be anything but a maintenance/storage-messy problem just down the line. The fact that it is neoprene covered just means that salt water will infiltrate the cover and percolate where it can’t be seen or gotten to. For an illustration of what I mean, just look at the owners of iron keel vessels every spring and the work they must do to keep rust and deterioration away and to ensure adhesion to the paint. Lead solves all issues and adds density as a bonus. In any case, time will tell and it is not a big deal either way and certainly not a safety issue. Please give us a field report on down the line. My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Anchors and anchoring

David.Tyler — Tue, 13 Feb 2018 17:17:58 GMT

The [url=https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cast-iron-Kettlebells-Weight-Strength-Training-Kettlebell-Exercise-Gym-Workout/271790329849?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=570617558385&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649]kettlebell[/url] was delivered today, and as I thought, it's going to be perfect as a chum/buddy/sentinel/kellet (how did so many names arise?). The handle is smooth and easy to grip to lift over the stemhead, as I'd expect for an item that is intended to be swung around (its origin as a cannonball with added handle is very apparent). It's well painted, so rust will not be an issue. The neoprene casing is thick, solid and tough, and will stand being thrown into the chain locker. I think probably the best thing to attach it to the rode is a [url=http://www.gsproducts.co.uk/stainless-steel-winch-hook/]http://www.gsproducts.co.uk/stainless-steel-winch-hook/[/url] , lashed on. [i]edited by David Tyler on 2/13/2018[/i]

Anchors and anchoring

Dick — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 14:27:40 GMT

Hi David, I believe your chum (sentinel/kellet) will solve (or at least make less likely and easier to resolve) the problem you refer to. I have all chain on the bower, but a stern anchor or a second anchor off the bow often can get into mischief in just the way you describe and a kellet has always made a difference. For what it is worth (in other words “no scientific evidence” just an observation) I try to position the kellet just longer than the distance along the rode as the water is deep. In that way if the rode goes slack, the kellet sinks to the bottom and keeps the rode fixed in place until the wind/current stretches it out again. I always also have the kellet adjustable/retrievable from the deck. I have a slick “slide” I found in a fire sale decades ago, but a snatch block works just as well. In a mid-night fire drill with the boat bouncing around, you do not want a heavy weight needing anything fancy or difficult to separate from the rode You might check the actual immersion weight of the chum you are referring to as iron is also less dense than lead. Also, iron will rust quickly and the expansion will get inside the neoprene cover and (I suspect) you will have a messy gross difficult-to-store, piece of gear in short order. My larger kellet is a handful of lead dive weights with a long ss eyebolt passed through the weight’s belt slot. It is surprising how often these end up in marine flee markets where they can be bought inexpensively. Let us know how things work out. My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Anchors and anchoring

David.Tyler — Sat, 10 Feb 2018 09:47:26 GMT

When I anchor [i]Weaverbird[/i] in a tideway, at the turn of the tide the anchor rode (short chain plus 12mm nylon) has an annoying habit of getting caught around one of the bilge keels. This means that she lies athwart the tide, and puts a great deal more load on the anchor. So, I thought, I need a chum. But looking around the UK online chandlers, all I could find was a [url=https://www.jimmygreen.co.uk/item/65464/anchor-buddy]Buddy at Jimmy Green[/url], a snip at £158.40 !!! So, I thought, there has to be something cheaper than that, surely. So I looked at weight training apparatus, and found that there is such a thing as a kettlebell, which looks darned near perfect for the job. It comes in many different weights, and I think [url=https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cast-iron-Kettlebells-Weight-Strength-Training-Kettlebell-Exercise-Gym-Workout/271790329849?epid=1460348656&hash=item3f47f74ff9%3Am%3AmbszdRLISikalTTJhWNqPoA]I'm going to get one at 8Kg[/url]. This one is cast iron, with a neoprene casing as well, which may be kinder to the boat. There are also models made of cement, which are probably not worth considering as the density of cement is not so much greater than seawater. Initial thought on deployment is that I'll lead the nylon rode through the loop permanently, and secure a 3 metre line to the loop, with a soft eye that I can drop onto a foredeck cleat.

Anchors and anchoring

Dick — Sat, 01 Oct 2016 09:20:35 GMT

Hi David, Agreed. For those of us who anchor regularly and sometimes in marginal conditions, these anchors are a very impressive leap in vessel and personnel safety even with a few rarely encountered glitches (now becoming more predictable). Steve 's experiments are fascinating and may prove the way to go. Early days yet, but I am sure there are those out there getting the drill bits out: and hopefully reporting to the various streams of info. My best, Dick

Anchors and anchoring

David.Tyler — Sat, 01 Oct 2016 09:04:24 GMT

Dick, Even after this one failure, I have to say that the Rocna is whole lot more reliable than the Delta I used to use, and I 'm with you and Alex that the modern generation of scoop anchors represents a great leap forward in anchor design. There 's just this one flaw to address, and I was very interested in Steve 's and the Sarca designer 's findings that the addition of perforations to the fluke will cause the clod of mud to be shrugged off. Now I 'm wondering if I should bring the anchor ashore and put it under the drill...

Anchors and anchoring

Dick — Sat, 01 Oct 2016 08:37:58 GMT

Hi David, Thanks for your report and sorry you had a re-set problem. Those on the Attainable Adventures web site who have Rocna 's report the intention of raising anchor and cleaning their anchor to ensure a good stick after a wind shift. Please see the web site (20$/year, but very valuable for a wealth of issues and info from seasoned cruisers) for discussions/comments from Rocna owners. And, yes, Steve deserves a big round of applause for his creative evaluation of anchors. My best, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy

Anchors and anchoring

David.Tyler — Sat, 01 Oct 2016 08:18:36 GMT

I can add another report: A couple of weeks ago, I dragged my Rocna anchor, in light winds but at the turn of the tide (in the Irish Sea, noted for its big tides). The bottom was sticky mud, and I 'm used to my Rocna coming up with a big clod of such sea bottom attached. I 'd never have thought of this as the reason for the unreliable reset, and I 'm very grateful for having it explained and demonstrated so well by Steve, SV [i]Panope[/i].

Anchors and anchoring

Dick — Fri, 30 Sep 2016 17:39:01 GMT

Hi Simon, Thanks for your report. I am sorry you had a re-set problem, although it sounds isolated and under extreme conditions. Still unsettling though. There appears to be some conjecture at this early-days attempt at understanding, that the scoop aspects of the new generation anchors accumulates seabed which unbalances the anchor so as to make it more difficult for the tip to penetrate when re-setting in a significant wind shift. Those of us with new gen anchors are aware of how much seabed comes up with the anchor when weighed and how stuck this seabed becomes (and how much work it is to clean). When the anchor goes down clean, these anchors are a marvel. The Spade anchor seems to be less compromised by this tendency, probably as it has a far higher weight in the tip in the form of a lead insert and therefore is less susceptible to the unbalancing caused by a build-up of mud weight. My best to all, Dick Stevenson, s/v Alchemy